DAN 8:13 Parallel Verse View

Note: This view shows ‘verses’ which are not natural language units and hence sometimes only part of a sentence will be visible—click on any Bible version abbreviation down the left-hand side to see the verse in more of its context. Normally the OET discourages the reading of individual ‘verses’, but this view is only designed as a tool for doing comparisons of different translations—the older translations are further down the page (so you can read up from the bottom to trace the English translation history). The OET segments on this page are still very early looks into the unfinished texts of the Open English Translation of the Bible—please double-check these texts in advance before using in public.

Part a: Text critical issues=none Clarity of original=unclear Importance to us=important
Part b: Text critical issues=none Clarity of original=clear Importance to us=important (All still tentative.)

8:13 Presumably these ‘holy ones’ are angels in the heavens (not ‘saints’ like in 7:27)???

Key: khaki:verbs.
Note: Automatic aligning of the OET-RV to the LV is done by some temporary software, hence the OET-RV alignments are incomplete (and may occasionally be wrong).

ULT Then I heard a holy one speaking and another holy one said to that particular one who was speaking, “For how long is the vision about the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, the giving over of the sanctuary and the host to be trampled on?”

UST Then I heard two angels who were talking to each other. One of them asked, “How long will the things that were in this vision continue? How long will the man who rebels against God and causes the temple to be defiled be able to prevent priests from offering sacrifices? How long will he trample on the temple and on the armies of heaven?”

OEB No OEB DAN book available

WEBBE Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who spoke, “How long will the vision about the continual burnt offering, and the disobedience that makes desolate, to give both the sanctuary and the army to be trodden under foot be?”

WMBB (Same as above)

NET Then I heard a holy one speaking. Another holy one said to the one who was speaking, “To what period of time does the vision pertain – this vision concerning the daily sacrifice and the destructive act of rebellion and the giving over of both the sanctuary and army to be trampled?”

LSV And I hear a certain holy one speaking, and a certain holy one says to the wonderful numberer who is speaking: Until when [is] the vision of the continual [sacrifice], and of the transgression, an astonishment, to make a treading down of both sanctuary and host?

FBV Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one asked the one who was speaking, “How long is this vision for—the removal of the continual service, the rebellion that causes devastation, the handing over of the sanctuary and the army of people to be trampled down?”

T4T Then I heard two angels who were talking to each other. One of them asked, “How long will the things/events that were in this vision continue? How long will the man who rebels against God and causes the temple to be defiled be able to prevent priests from offering sacrifices? How long will he trample on the temple and on the armies of heaven?”

LEB And I heard a certain holy one speaking, and a certain other holy one said to the specific one _⌊who was speaking_⌋,[fn] “_⌊For how long_⌋[fn] is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, and the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and the host to trampling?”

8:13 Literally “the one speaking”

8:13 Literally “Until when”

BBE Then there came to my ears the voice of a holy one talking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was talking, How long will the vision be while the regular burned offering is taken away, and the unclean thing causing fear is put up, and the holy place crushed under foot?

Moff Then I overheard an angel speaking, and another angel said to the speaker, “How long is this to last, this that we see, the daily sacrifice stopped, the appalling sacrilege, the trampling down of the sanctuary and the starry host?”

JPS Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said unto that certain one who spoke: 'How long shall be the vision concerning the continual burnt-offering, and the transgression that causes appalment, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled under foot?'

ASV Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said unto that certain one who spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the continual burnt-offering, and the transgression that maketh desolate, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

DRA And I heard one of the saints speaking, and one saint said to another, I know not to whom that was speaking: How long shall be the vision, concerning the continual sacrifice, and the sin of the desolation that is made: and the sanctuary, and the strength be trodden under foot?

YLT 'And I hear a certain holy one speaking, and a certain holy one saith to the wonderful numberer who is speaking: Till when [is] the vision of the continual [sacrifice], and of the transgression, an astonishment, to make both sanctuary and host a treading down?

Drby And I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that one who spoke, How long shall be the vision of the continual [sacrifice] and of the transgression that maketh desolate, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden down under foot?

RV Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said unto that certain one which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the continual burnt offering, and the transgression that maketh desolate, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
(Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said unto that certain one which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the continual burnt-offering, and the transgression that maketh/makes desolate, to give both the sanctuary and the host/army to be trodden under foot? )

SLT And I shall hear one holy one speaking, and one holy one will say to a certain one, speaking, How long the vision of the continuance, and the transgression laying waste, to be? and the holy place and the army being trodden down?

Wbstr Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said to that certain saint who spoke, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice , and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

KJB-1769 ¶ Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?[fn][fn]
(¶ Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host/army to be trodden under foot? )

8.13 that…: or, the numberer of secrets, or, the wonderful numberer: Heb. Palmoni

8.13 of…: or, making desolate

KJB-1611 ¶ [fn][fn]Then I heard one Saint speaking, and another Saint saide vnto that certaine Saint which spake, How long shall bee the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to giue both the Sanctuary, and the hoste to be troden vnder foot?
(Modernised spelling is same as from KJB-1769 above, apart from marking of added words (and possibly capitalisation and punctuation and footnotes))

8:13 The numberer of secrets, or, the wonderfull numberer. Heb. Palmoni.

8:13 Or, making desolate.

Bshps Upon this, I heard one of the sainctes speaking, and one of the sainctes spake vnto Palmoni, saying: how long shal the vision of the dayly sacrifice and of the iniquitie of desolation endure, to geue both the sanctuarie and the power to be troden vnder foote?
(Upon this, I heard one of the sainctes speaking, and one of the sainctes spake unto Palmoni, saying: how long shall the vision of the daily sacrifice and of the iniquity of desolation endure, to give both the sanctuary and the power to be trodden under foote?)

Gnva Then I heard one of the Saints speaking, and one of the Saints spake vnto a certaine one, saying, Howe long shall endure the vision of the dayly sacrifice, and the iniquitie of the desolation to treade both the Sanctuarie and the armie vnder foote?
(Then I heard one of the Saints speaking, and one of the Saints spake unto a certain one, saying, How long shall endure the vision of the daily sacrifice, and the iniquity of the desolation to tread both the Sanctuary and the army under foote? )

Cvdl Vpon this I herde one off the sayntes speakynge, which saynte sayde vnto one that axed this question: How longe shall this vision off the daylie sacrifice and of the waistinge abhominacion endure: that the Sanctuary and the power shall so be troden vnder fote?
(Upon this I herd/heard one off the saints speaking, which saint said unto one that asked this question: How long shall this vision off the daily sacrifice and of the wasting abomination/disgusting_thing endure: that the Sanctuary and the power shall so be trodden under fote?)

Wycl And Y herde oon of hooli aungels spekynge; and oon hooli aungel seide to another, Y noot to whom spekinge, Hou long the visioun, and the contynuel sacrifice, and the synne of desolacioun, which is maad, and the seyntuarie, and the strengthe schal be defoulid?
(And I heard one of holy angels speaking; and one holy angel said to another, I noot to whom speaking, How long the vision, and the continual sacrifice, and the sin of desolation, which is made, and the sanctuary, and the strength shall be defiled?)

Luth Ich hörete aber einen Heiligen reden; und derselbige Heilige sprach zu einem, der da redete: Wie lange soll doch währen solch Gesicht vom täglichen Opfer und von der Sünde, um welcher willen diese Verwüstung geschieht, daß beide, das Heiligtum und das Heer, zertreten werden?
(I heard but a saints/holy_ones talk; and the_same saints spoke to/for on, the/of_the there talked: How long should though/but last(v) such vision/face from_the daily victim/prey and from the/of_the sin(n), around/by/for which will this/these devastation/desolation happens/occurs, that both, the sanctuary and the army, crushed/trampled become?)

ClVg Et audivi unum de sanctis loquentem: et dixit unus sanctus alteri nescio cui loquenti: Usquequo visio, et juge sacrificium, et peccatum desolationis quæ facta est: et sanctuarium, et fortitudo conculcabitur?
(And I_heard one from/about to_the_saints speakingm: and he/she_said one holy to_another I_don't_know to_whom loquenti: So_far visio, and yuge sacrifice, and sin desolateonis which facts it_is: and sanctuary, and strength will_trampleur? )

SOTN SIL Open Translator’s Notes:

Section 8:1–27 Daniel had a dream about a ram and a goat

At this point in the narrative, the author of the book of Daniel again began to write in the Hebrew language. He described another vision, this one occurring during the third year of Belshazzar’s reign over Babylon. In this vision Daniel was by the bank of a canal near the city of Susa. He saw a very powerful ram with two horns that charged in all directions. Next he saw a goat with one large horn between its eyes. The goat attacked and defeated the ram and grew very powerful. Its large horn broke and four prominent horns grew in its place. From one of those four horns grew a small horn. That little horn grew as high as the stars, as high as the army of heaven, and as high as the commander of the army. When it was at its highest, it stopped the daily sacrifices and desecrated the temple.

The angel Gabriel came to Daniel and explained the meaning of what he had seen. The ram and the goat represented kings and their kingdoms. The little horn represented a particularly wicked king. That king would even defy God, but in the end that wicked king would be destroyed.

Some versions have two headings within this section. For example:

NET Daniel Has a Vision of a Goat and a Ram (8:1)

An Angel Interprets Daniel’s Vision (8:15)

NRSV Vision of a Ram and a Goat (8:1)

Gabriel Interprets the Vision (8:15)

GNT Daniel’s Vision of a Ram and a Goat

The Angel Gabriel Explains the Vision (8:15)

BFrCL88 Second vision: the Ram and the Goat (8:1)

Interpretation of the second vision (8:15)

GeCL97 A second vision: The battle between the Ram and the Goat (8:1)

The meaning of the vision of the ram and the goat (8:15)

There are a number of similarities between chapter eight and chapter seven. For example, both chapters use symbolic language to describe kingdoms, and both use the symbol of a horn to refer to particular rulers of those kingdoms. In spite of these similarities, it is important to understand that the symbols in the two chapters do not necessarily refer to the same things. For example, while there are similarities between the two little horns, there are also important differences. The Notes will explain some of these differences. The Notes will also suggest ways to translate these symbols.

As noted above, the chapter is divided into two parts, one that describes the vision and one that gives the interpretation of the vision. Both parts lead to a climax. In the first part the horn grew until it became so great that it succeeded in everything it did (8:12). A similar sequence of events occurs in the second part of the vision. Gabriel described the growth of the horn and its climactic success (8:24–26). At the end of the chapter, Gabriel announced that God would destroy the horn (8:25).

The vision includes a number of images that may seem obscure and confusing. It is usually best to translate these images in a literal way. Even Daniel did not understand the full meaning of what he saw.

Paragraph 8:13–14

God’s angel indicated that the evil deeds of the little horn will be limited to a certain time period.

8:13a

Then I heard a holy one speaking,

¶ Then I heard a holy being speaking.
¶ Then I hear a holy/heavenly angel talking.
¶ Then I heard an angel talking,

Then I heard a holy one speaking: In his vision, Daniel heard one of the heavenly beings talking. He does not record to whom this holy one was speaking, or what he said.

a holy one: The Hebrew phrase that the BSB translates as a holy one indicates that the reference is to one specific holy one, out of many. He was not unique. He was one of the many heavenly beings that serve God, perhaps an angel.

8:13b

and another holy one said to him,

Then another holy being said to one who was speaking,
Then another angel asked the holy/heavenly speaker,
and a second angel asked him a question:

and another holy one said to him: A second heavenly being was present and addressed the first one.

to him: The English pronoun him refers to the first holy one, the one who was speaking in 8:13a. The Hebrew word that the BSB translates as to him means something like “to whoever it was.” Here is another way to translate this:

to the speaker (NJB)

General Comment on 8:13a–b

In some languages it may be more natural to combine these two verse parts. For example:

^13a-bI heard two holy ones talking to one another. One said/asked…

8:13c

“How long until the fulfillment of the vision

“How long will all these things from the vision remain/last—
“How long must those events from the vision continue/endure?
“For how many days will/must all that continue?

How long until the fulfillment of the vision…?: The Hebrew words that the BSB translates as How long until the fulfillment of the vision are more literally “until when the vision?” The BSB has supplied the words until the fulfillment. The angel was asking about the end or completion of the events described in the vision, not the vision itself. He was asking how long the evil power symbolized by the little horn would be successful. In order to avoid the wrong meaning, that the question was about the length of the actual vision, it may be necessary to supply some information. For example:

How long will these things that were seen in the vision continue? (GNT)

How long will the events of this vision last? (NLT)

The phrase that the BSB translates as How long often introduces a rhetorical question that protests some injustice. Here, however, it introduces a real question, but it still includes something of a complaint or lament. In English one could indicate this by asking:

How long must it be until the vision is fulfilled?

For how long must these events continue?

How long must it be before the events of this vision come to an end?

8:13d–f

of the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host to be trampled?: These verse parts identify and describe the contents of the vision that the angel was asking about. The BSB has supplied the word of, which is not in the Hebrew text.

You will want to refer to the contents of the vision in a way that allows the reader to identify them with the description in 8:11–12. The BSB uses noun phrases within one long question. In some languages it may be natural to use several separate clauses. See the General Comment on 8:13.

8:13d

of the daily sacrifice,

the suppression/absence of the daily sacrifices,
For how long will the little horn stop/prevent the daily sacrifices?
When will people offer the daily sacrifices again?

the daily sacrifice: This is the same Hebrew word as in 8:11b and 8:12b. Translate it in the same or a similar way here. For example:

perpetual sacrifice (NJB)

the regular burnt offering (NRSV)

In some languages it may be natural to make it clear that the vision concerned the suspension or absence of the daily sacrifices. For example:

how long will they stop the daily sacrifices?

8:13e

the rebellion that causes desolation,

the wicked sin that brings destruction,
How long will the evil thing continue to desecrate the temple?
When will the little horn stop acting wickedly and bringing ruin?

the rebellion that causes desolation: The Hebrew word that the BSB translates as the rebellion is the same as that in 8:12a. The phrase here probably indicates that the sinful rebellion of the little horn caused disaster or destruction. Here are some other ways to translate this:

the transgression that makes desolate (NRSV)

the destructive rebellion (GW)

how long will it/they rebel and cause destruction

8:13f

and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host to be trampled?”

the surrender of the holy place and the suppression/oppression of God’s people?”
How long will the little horn have power over the holy place and crush God’s army?”
When will he stop conquering the temple and oppressing those who serve God/Yahweh?”

the surrender of the sanctuary: The Hebrew word that the BSB translates as the surrender is more literally “the giving over.” It indicates that God gave the sanctuary over to the enemies of the Jews. He allowed them to conquer and occupy the temple in Jerusalem. Other ways to translate this include:

the surrender of the holy place (GW)

how long…will enemies control the holy place

and of the host to be trampled: God’s people were trampled; that is, they were crushed and oppressed. Daniel wanted to know how long this would continue. Other ways to translate this include:

and the oppression of the people of God

how long…will they trample/oppress the LORD’s people

the host: The Hebrew word that the BSB translates as the host is literally “a host,” as in 8:12a. This likely again refers to the multitude of God’s people, his host or army.

General Comment on 8:13

In some languages it may be both more clear and more effective to use several questions in place of the one long question. For example:

How long will the events of this vision last? How long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the daily sacrifices? How long will the Temple and heaven’s army be trampled on? (NLT)

Parallel DAN 8:13