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OET (OET-LV) And_I_heard one holy_one speaking and_he/it_said one holy_one to_one who_was_speaking until when will_be_the_vision the_perpetual_offering and_the_transgression which_desolates to_give_over and_the_sanctuary and_an_army a_trampling_place.
OET (OET-RV) Then I heard a holy one[fn] speaking, and another holy one said to that particular one who was speaking, “How long until this vision about the regular burnt offering will be fulfilled, and about the transgression that makes desolate, the giving over of the sanctuary and the army to be trampled on?”
8:13 Presumably these ‘holy ones’ are angels in the heavens (not ‘saints’ like in 7:27)???
At this point in the narrative, the author of the book of Daniel again began to write in the Hebrew language. He described another vision, this one occurring during the third year of Belshazzar’s reign over Babylon. In this vision Daniel was by the bank of a canal near the city of Susa. He saw a very powerful ram with two horns that charged in all directions. Next he saw a goat with one large horn between its eyes. The goat attacked and defeated the ram and grew very powerful. Its large horn broke and four prominent horns grew in its place. From one of those four horns grew a small horn. That little horn grew as high as the stars, as high as the army of heaven, and as high as the commander of the army. When it was at its highest, it stopped the daily sacrifices and desecrated the temple.
The angel Gabriel came to Daniel and explained the meaning of what he had seen. The ram and the goat represented kings and their kingdoms. The little horn represented a particularly wicked king. That king would even defy God, but in the end that wicked king would be destroyed.
Some versions have two headings within this section. For example:
NET Daniel Has a Vision of a Goat and a Ram (8:1)
An Angel Interprets Daniel’s Vision (8:15)
NRSV Vision of a Ram and a Goat (8:1)
Gabriel Interprets the Vision (8:15)
GNT Daniel’s Vision of a Ram and a Goat
The Angel Gabriel Explains the Vision (8:15)
BFrCL88 Second vision: the Ram and the Goat (8:1)
Interpretation of the second vision (8:15)
GeCL97 A second vision: The battle between the Ram and the Goat (8:1)
The meaning of the vision of the ram and the goat (8:15)
There are a number of similarities between chapter eight and chapter seven. For example, both chapters use symbolic language to describe kingdoms, and both use the symbol of a horn to refer to particular rulers of those kingdoms. In spite of these similarities, it is important to understand that the symbols in the two chapters do not necessarily refer to the same things. For example, while there are similarities between the two little horns, there are also important differences. The Notes will explain some of these differences. The Notes will also suggest ways to translate these symbols.
As noted above, the chapter is divided into two parts, one that describes the vision and one that gives the interpretation of the vision. Both parts lead to a climax. In the first part the horn grew until it became so great that it succeeded in everything it did (8:12). A similar sequence of events occurs in the second part of the vision. Gabriel described the growth of the horn and its climactic success (8:24–26). At the end of the chapter, Gabriel announced that God would destroy the horn (8:25).
The vision includes a number of images that may seem obscure and confusing. It is usually best to translate these images in a literal way. Even Daniel did not understand the full meaning of what he saw.
God’s angel indicated that the evil deeds of the little horn will be limited to a certain time period.
Then I heard a holy one speaking,
¶ Then I heard a holy being speaking.
¶ Then I hear a holy/heavenly angel talking.
¶ Then I heard an angel talking,
Then I heard a holy one speaking: In his vision, Daniel heard one of the heavenly beings talking. He does not record to whom this holy one was speaking, or what he said.
a holy one: The Hebrew phrase that the BSB translates as a holy one indicates that the reference is to one specific holy one, out of many. He was not unique. He was one of the many heavenly beings that serve God, perhaps an angel.
and another holy one said to him,
Then another holy being said to one who was speaking,
Then another angel asked the holy/heavenly speaker,
and a second angel asked him a question:
and another holy one said to him: A second heavenly being was present and addressed the first one.
to him: The English pronoun him refers to the first holy one, the one who was speaking in 8:13a. The Hebrew word that the BSB translates as to him means something like “to whoever it was.” Here is another way to translate this:
to the speaker (NJB)
In some languages it may be more natural to combine these two verse parts. For example:
13a-bI heard two holy ones talking to one another. One said/asked…
“How long until the fulfillment of the vision
“How long will all these things from the vision remain/last—
“How long must those events from the vision continue/endure?
“For how many days will/must all that continue?
How long until the fulfillment of the vision…?: The Hebrew words that the BSB translates as How long until the fulfillment of the vision are more literally “until when the vision?” The BSB has supplied the words until the fulfillment. The angel was asking about the end or completion of the events described in the vision, not the vision itself. He was asking how long the evil power symbolized by the little horn would be successful. In order to avoid the wrong meaning, that the question was about the length of the actual vision, it may be necessary to supply some information. For example:
How long will these things that were seen in the vision continue? (GNT)
How long will the events of this vision last? (NLT)
The phrase that the BSB translates as How long often introduces a rhetorical question that protests some injustice. Here, however, it introduces a real question, but it still includes something of a complaint or lament. In English one could indicate this by asking:
How long must it be until the vision is fulfilled?
For how long must these events continue?
How long must it be before the events of this vision come to an end?
of the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host to be trampled?: These verse parts identify and describe the contents of the vision that the angel was asking about. The BSB has supplied the word of, which is not in the Hebrew text.
You will want to refer to the contents of the vision in a way that allows the reader to identify them with the description in 8:11–12. The BSB uses noun phrases within one long question. In some languages it may be natural to use several separate clauses. See the General Comment on 8:13.
of the daily sacrifice,
the suppression/absence of the daily sacrifices,
For how long will the little horn stop/prevent the daily sacrifices?
When will people offer the daily sacrifices again?
the daily sacrifice: This is the same Hebrew word as in 8:11b and 8:12b. Translate it in the same or a similar way here. For example:
perpetual sacrifice (NJB)
the regular burnt offering (NRSV)
In some languages it may be natural to make it clear that the vision concerned the suspension or absence of the daily sacrifices. For example:
how long will they stop the daily sacrifices?
the rebellion that causes desolation,
the wicked sin that brings destruction,
How long will the evil thing continue to desecrate the temple?
When will the little horn stop acting wickedly and bringing ruin?
the rebellion that causes desolation: The Hebrew word that the BSB translates as the rebellion is the same as that in 8:12a. The phrase here probably indicates that the sinful rebellion of the little horn caused disaster or destruction. Here are some other ways to translate this:
the transgression that makes desolate (NRSV)
the destructive rebellion (GW)
how long will it/they rebel and cause destruction
and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host to be trampled?”
the surrender of the holy place and the suppression/oppression of God’s people?”
How long will the little horn have power over the holy place and crush God’s army?”
When will he stop conquering the temple and oppressing those who serve God/Yahweh?”
the surrender of the sanctuary: The Hebrew word that the BSB translates as the surrender is more literally “the giving over.” It indicates that God gave the sanctuary over to the enemies of the Jews. He allowed them to conquer and occupy the temple in Jerusalem. Other ways to translate this include:
the surrender of the holy place (GW)
how long…will enemies control the holy place
and of the host to be trampled: God’s people were trampled; that is, they were crushed and oppressed. Daniel wanted to know how long this would continue. Other ways to translate this include:
and the oppression of the people of God
how long…will they trample/oppress the LORD’s people
the host: The Hebrew word that the BSB translates as the host is literally “a host,” as in 8:12a. This likely again refers to the multitude of God’s people, his host or army.
In some languages it may be both more clear and more effective to use several questions in place of the one long question. For example:
How long will the events of this vision last? How long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the daily sacrifices? How long will the Temple and heaven’s army be trampled on? (NLT)
אֶֽחָד־קָד֖וֹשׁ
a holy
Alternate translation: “an angel”
תֵּ֛ת וְקֹ֥דֶשׁ
to_give and_[the],sanctuary
Alternate translation: “the surrender of the sanctuary”
Note 1 topic: figures-of-speech / activepassive
וְצָבָ֖א מִרְמָֽס
and,an_army trampled
If your language does not use the passive form in this way, you can state this in active form or in another way that is natural in your language. Alternate translation: “the horn trampling on heaven’s army”
8:1-27 This vision expands the vision of ch 7, developing additional symbolism regarding the second and third beasts (7:5-6). Its report about a small horn that arises from the goat has similarities with the “little horn” of 7:8, 20-25; the “ruler” of 9:26-27; and the “despicable man” of 11:21-45.
OET (OET-LV) And_I_heard one holy_one speaking and_he/it_said one holy_one to_one who_was_speaking until when will_be_the_vision the_perpetual_offering and_the_transgression which_desolates to_give_over and_the_sanctuary and_an_army a_trampling_place.
OET (OET-RV) Then I heard a holy one[fn] speaking, and another holy one said to that particular one who was speaking, “How long until this vision about the regular burnt offering will be fulfilled, and about the transgression that makes desolate, the giving over of the sanctuary and the army to be trampled on?”
8:13 Presumably these ‘holy ones’ are angels in the heavens (not ‘saints’ like in 7:27)???
Note: The OET-RV is still only a first draft, and so far only a few words have been (mostly automatically) matched to the Hebrew or Greek words that they’re translated from.
Acknowledgements: The Hebrew text, lemmas, and morphology are all thanks to the OSHB and some of the glosses are from Macula Hebrew.
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