HEB 12:8 Parallel Verse View

Note: This view shows ‘verses’ which are not natural language units and hence sometimes only part of a sentence will be visible. Normally the OET discourages the reading of individual ‘verses’, but this view is only designed for doing comparisons of different translations. Click on any Bible version abbreviation down the left-hand side to see the verse in more of its context. The OET segments on this page are still very early looks into the unfinished texts of the Open English Translation of the Bible. Please double-check these texts in advance before using in public.

Text critical issues=small word differences Clarity of original=clear Importance=normal (All still tentative.)

OET (OET-RV) If you all weren’t disciplined (which all children experience), then you wouldn’t be true children, but rather illegitimate ones.

Key: khaki:verbs, light-green:nominative/subject, pink:genitive/possessor, red:negative.
Note: Automatic aligning of the OET-RV to the LV is done by some temporary software, hence the OET-RV alignments are incomplete (and may occasionally be wrong).

ULT But if you are without discipline, of which all men have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not his sons.

UST Suppose God did not train you, even though he trained everybody else. In that case, you would not actually be God’s children.

BSB If you do not experience discipline like everyone else, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

BLB But if you are without discipline, of which they have all become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

AICNT But if you are without discipline (and everyone undergoes discipline) then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

OEB If you are left without that discipline, in which all children share, it shows that you are bastards, and not true children.

WEBBE But if you are without discipline, of which all have been made partakers, then you are illegitimate, and not children.

WMBB (Same as above)

NET But if you do not experience discipline, something all sons have shared in, then you are illegitimate and are not sons.

LSV And if you are apart from discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are bastards, and not sons.

FBV If you are not disciplined, (which everyone has experienced), then you are illegitimate and not true children.

TCNT If you do not experience discipline, which is something everyone receives, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

T4T So, if you have not experienced God disciplining you just like he disciplines all his other children, you are not true children of God [MET]. You are like illegitimate children; no father disciplines them.

LEB But if you are without discipline, in which all legitimate sons[fn] have become participants, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

12:8 *The phrase “legitimate sons” is not in the Greek text but is implied

BBE But if you have not that punishment of which we all have our part, then you are not true sons, but children of shame.

Moff No Moff HEB book available

Wymth And if you are left without discipline, of which every true son has had a share, that shows that you are bastards, and not true sons.

ASV But if ye are without chastening, whereof all have been made partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

DRA But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are made partakers, then are you bastards, and not sons.

YLT and if ye are apart from chastening, of which all have become partakers, then bastards are ye, and not sons.

Drby But if ye are without chastening, of which all have been made partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

RV But if ye are without chastening, whereof all have been made partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Wbstr But if ye are without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then are ye bastards and not sons.

KJB-1769 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
(But if ye/you_all be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye/you_all bastards, and not sons. )

KJB-1611 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sonnes.
(Modernised spelling is same as from KJB-1769 above)

Bshps But yf ye be without chastisment, wherof all are partakers, then are ye bastardes, and not sonnes.
(But if ye/you_all be without chastisment, wherof all are partakers, then are ye/you_all bastards, and not sons.)

Gnva If therefore ye be without correction, whereof al are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sonnes.
(If therefore ye/you_all be without correction, whereof all are partakers, then are ye/you_all bastards, and not sons. )

Cvdl Yf ye be not vnder correccion (wherof all are partakers) then are ye bastardes and not sonnes.
(If ye/you_all be not under correccion (wherof all are partakers) then are ye/you_all bastards and not sons.)

TNT If ye be not vnder correccion (where of all are part takers) then are ye bastardes and not sonnes.
(If ye/you_all be not under correccion (where of all are part takers) then are ye/you_all bastards and not sons. )

Wycl That if ye `ben out of chastising, whos parteneris ben ye alle maad, thanne ye ben auowtreris, and not sones.
(That if ye/you_all `ben out of chastising, whos parteneris been ye/you_all all made, then ye/you_all been auowtreris, and not sons.)

Luth Seid ihr aber ohne Züchtigung, welcher sie alle sind teilhaftig worden, so seid ihr Bastarde und nicht Kinder.
(Seid you/their/her but without Züchtigung, which they/she/them all are teilhaftig worden, so seid you/their/her Bastarde and not children.)

ClVg quod si extra disciplinam estis, cujus participes facti sunt omnes: ergo adulteri, et non filii estis.[fn]
(that when/but_if extra disciplinam estis, cuyus participes facti are omnes: therefore adulteri, and not/no children estis. )

12.8 Ergo adulteri. Nota non jure vocari patrem, qui ex adulterio genuerit, quia ab eo geniti, non dicuntur filii legitimi.

12.8 Ergo adulteri. Nota not/no yure vocari patrem, who from adulterio genuerit, because away eo geniti, not/no dicuntur children legitimi.

UGNT εἰ δὲ χωρίς ἐστε παιδείας, ἧς μέτοχοι γεγόνασι πάντες, ἄρα νόθοι καὶ οὐχ υἱοί ἐστε.
(ei de ⱪōris este paideias, haʸs metoⱪoi gegonasi pantes, ara nothoi kai ouⱪ huioi este.)

SBL-GNT εἰ δὲ χωρίς ἐστε παιδείας ἧς μέτοχοι γεγόνασι πάντες, ἄρα νόθοι ⸂καὶ οὐχ υἱοί ἐστε⸃.
(ei de ⱪōris este paideias haʸs metoⱪoi gegonasi pantes, ara nothoi ⸂kai ouⱪ huioi este⸃.)

TC-GNT Εἰ δὲ χωρίς ἐστε παιδείας, ἧς μέτοχοι γεγόνασι πάντες, ἄρα νόθοι [fn]ἐστὲ καὶ οὐχ υἱοί.
(Ei de ⱪōris este paideias, haʸs metoⱪoi gegonasi pantes, ara nothoi este kai ouⱪ huioi. )

12:8 εστε και ουχ υιοι ¦ και ουχ υιοι εστε CT

Key for above GNTs: yellow:punctuation differs, red:words differ (from our SR-GNT base).

UTN uW Translation Notes:

Note 1 topic: grammar-connect-words-phrases

δὲ

but

Here, the word But introduces a further development in the author’s argument. It does not introduce a contrast with what the author just said. If it would be helpful in your language, you could use a word or phrase that introduces the next part of an argument, or you could leave But untranslated. Alternate translation: [Now]

Note 2 topic: grammar-connect-condition-hypothetical

εἰ & χωρίς ἐστε παιδείας & ἄρα & ἐστε

if & without ˱you_all˲_are discipline & consequently & ˱you_all˲_are

Here the author uses the conditional form to show that being without discipline means that they are illegitimate and not his sons. If the conditional form does not indicate a cause and effect relationship like this in your language, you could express the if statement in a way that does show the relationship. Alternate translation: [were you without discipline … then you would be] or [if ever you were without discipline … then you would be]

Note 3 topic: figures-of-speech / abstractnouns

χωρίς ἐστε παιδείας, ἧς μέτοχοι γεγόνασι πάντες

without ˱you_all˲_are discipline ˱of˲_which partakers /have/_become all

If your language does not use an abstract noun for the idea of discipline, you could express the idea by using a verb such as “discipline” or “train.” Alternate translation: [if you are not disciplined, which all men have participated in]

Note 4 topic: figures-of-speech / gendernotations

πάντες & υἱοί

all & sons

Although the words men and sons are masculine, the author is using them to refer to all people, both men and women. If it would be helpful in your language, you could use words that apply to both men and women or you could refer to both genders. Alternate translation: [all people … his sons and daughters]

Note 5 topic: figures-of-speech / doublet

νόθοι καὶ οὐχ υἱοί

bastard and not sons

Here, the words illegitimate and not his sons function together to identify children who do not have the status of sons. In the author’s culture, an illegitimate child had one parent who was not fully recognized as a spouse. For example, the woman might not be married to the man, or one of the parents might not be a citizen of the city or country, or one parent might be a slave or concubine. In each of these cases, the child would not receive the full status of “son” and would thus be illegitimate. If you do not have two words for these categories, you could use a single word or phrase to identify a child who does not have full status or honor. Alternate translation: [illegitimate sons] or [not true sons]

Parallel HEB 12:8