JOS 17:15 Parallel Verse View

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Text critical issues=none Clarity of original=clear Importance to us=normal Speaker(s)=Narrator,Yehoshua (All still tentative.)

Key: khaki:verbs.
Note: Automatic aligning of the OET-RV to the LV is done by some temporary software, hence the OET-RV alignments are incomplete (and may occasionally be wrong).

BrLXX Καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς, εἰ λαὸς πολὺς εἶ, ἀνάβηθι εἰς τὸν δρυμὸν, καὶ ἐκκάθαρον σεαυτῷ εἰ στενοχωρεῖ σε τὸ ὄρος τὸ Ἐφραΐμ.
(Kai eipen autois Yaʸsous, ei laos polus ei, anabaʸthi eis ton drumon, kai ekkatharon seautōi ei stenoⱪōrei se to oros to Efraim.)

BrTr And Joshua said to them, If thou be a great people, go up to the forest, and clear the land for thyself, if mount Ephraim be too little for thee.

ULT And Joshua said to them, “If you, are a numerous people, go up for yourself to the forest, and you shall clear for yourself there in the land of the Perizzite and the Raphaites, for the hill country of Ephraim is narrow to you.”

UST Joshua replied to them, “As you say, there is probably not enough room for you in the hill country we have assigned you. But since you do have a lot of people, you can also occupy the land where the Perizzites and the Raphaites now live. You can go up to that forest area and cut down trees to clear fields where you can plant your crops.”

BSB & MSB Joshua answered them, “If you have so many people that the hill country of Ephraim is too small for you, go to the forest and clear for yourself an area in the land of the Perizzites and the Rephaim.”

OEB Joshua replied, ‘If there are so many of you, go up to the Forest and clear land for yourselves there, among the Perizzites and the Rephaim, if the highlands of Ephraim are too small for you.’

WEBBE & WMBB Joshua said to them, “If you are a numerous people, go up to the forest, and clear land for yourself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the Rephaim, since the hill country of Ephraim is too narrow for you.”

NET Joshua replied to them, “Since you have so many people, go up into the forest and clear out a place to live in the land of the Perizzites and Rephaites, for the hill country of Ephraim is too small for you.”

LSV And Joshua says to them, “If you [are] a numerous people, go up to the forest for yourself, then you have created [a place] for yourself there in the land of the Perizzite and of the Rephaim, when Mount Ephraim has been narrow for you.”

FBV Joshua told them, “If there's so many of you, if the hill country of Ephraim is too small for you, then go and clear ground for yourselves from the forest in the land of the Perizzites and the Rephaim.”

T4T Joshua replied to them, “I agree that you do not have enough land in the hilly area of the tribe of Ephraim. So, since you have a lot of people, I will allot more land to you, in the hilly region. But you will have to cut down the trees in the forest and make a place for yourselves in the land where the Periz and Repha people-groups live.”

LEB And Joshua said to them, “If you are many people, go up to the forest and clear a place there for yourselves in the land of the Perizzites[fn] and Rephaim, since the hill country of Ephraim is too narrow for you.”

17:15 Hebrew “Perizzite”

BBE Then Joshua said to them, If you are such a great people, go up into the woodlands, clearing a place there for yourselves in the land of the Perizzites and the Rephaim, if the hill-country of Ephraim is not wide enough for you.

Moff Joshua replied, “Tf you are a great clan, go up to the Forest and clear land for yourselves there, among the Perizzites and the Rephaim, since the highlands of Ephraim are too small for you.”

JPS And Joshua said unto them: 'If thou be a great people, get thee up to the forest, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the Rephaim; since the hill-country of Ephraim is too narrow for thee.'

ASV And Joshua said unto them, If thou be a great people, get thee up to the forest, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the Rephaim; since the hill-country of Ephraim is too narrow for thee.

DRA And Josue said to them: If thou be a great people, go up into the woodland, and cut down room for thyself in the land of the Pherezite and the Raphaims: because the possession of mount Ephraim is too narrow for thee.

YLT And Joshua saith unto them, 'If thou [art] a numerous people, go up for thee to the forest, then thou hast prepared for thee there, in the land of the Perizzite, and of the Rephaim, when mount Ephraim hath been narrow for thee.'

Drby And Joshua said unto them, If thou art a great people, then get thee up to the wood, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if the hill-country of Ephraim is too narrow for thee.

RV And Joshua said unto them, If thou be a great people, get thee up to the forest, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the Rephaim; since the hill country of Ephraim is too narrow for thee.
(And Joshua said unto them, If thou/you be a great people, get thee/you up to the forest, and cut down for thyself/yourself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the Rephaim; since the hill country of Ephraim is too narrow for thee/you.)

SLT And Joshua will say to them, If thou much people go up for thyself to the forest, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzite and of the Rephaims, if mount Ephraim was narrow to thee.

Wbstr And Joshua answered them, If thou art a great people, then go up to the wood, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim is too narrow for thee.

KJB-1769 And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.[fn]
(And Joshua answered them, If thou/you be a great people, then get thee/you up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself/yourself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee/you.)

17.15 giants: or, Rephaims

KJB-1611 And Ioshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee vp to the wood countrey, and cut downe for thy selfe there in the land of the Perizzites, and of the [fn]giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.
(Modernised spelling is same as from KJB-1769 above, apart from marking of added words (and possibly capitalisation and punctuation and footnotes))

17:15 Or, Rephaims.

Bshps And Iosuah auswered them: If thou be much people, then get thee vp to the wood countrey and prepare for thy selfe there in the lande of the Pherezites and of the Giauntes, yf mount Ephraim be to narowe for thee.
(And Yoshua answered them: If thou/you be much people, then get thee/you up to the wood country and prepare for thyself/yourself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the Giants, if mount Ephraim be to narrow for thee/you.)

Gnva Ioshua then answered them, If thou be much people, get thee vp to the wood, and cut trees for thy selfe there in the lande of the Perizzites, and of the gyants, if mount Ephraim be too narowe for thee.
(Yoshua then answered them, If thou/you be much people, get thee/you up to the wood, and cut trees for thyself/yourself there in the land of the Perizzites, and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee/you.)

Cvdl Then sayde Iosua vnto them: For so moch as thou art a greate people, go vp therfore into ye wodd, and make thy selfe rowme there in the londe of the Pheresites and Raphaim, seynge mout Ephraim is to narowe for the.
(Then said Yoshua unto them: For so much as thou/you art a great people, go up therefore into ye/you_all wood, and make thyself/yourself room there in the land of the Perizzites and Raphaim, seeing mount Ephraim is to narrow for them.)

Wycl To whiche Josue seide, If thou art myche puple, stie thou into the wode, and kitte doun to thee spaces in the lond of Feresei, and of Raphaym, for the possessioun of the hil of Effraym is streiyt to thee.
(To which Yoshua said, If thou/you art much people, ascend thou/you into the wood, and cut down to thee/you spaces in the land of Feresei, and of Raphaym, for the possession of the hill of Ephraim is straight to thee/you.)

Luth Da sprach Josua zu ihnen: Weil du ein groß Volk bist; so gehe hinauf in den Wald und haue um daselbst im Lande der Pheresiter und Riesen, weil dir das Gebirge Ephraim zu enge ist.
(So spoke Joshua to/for to_them: Since/Because you(sg) a large people are; so go up in the forest and hit/spank around/by/for there in_the land the/of_the Perizzite(s) and giants, because you/to_you(sg) the mountains Ephraim to/for narrow is.)

ClVg Ad quos Josue ait: Si populus multus es, ascende in silvam, et succide tibi spatia in terra Pherezæi et Raphaim: quia angusta est tibi possessio montis Ephraim.
(To which Yoshua he_said: When/But_if the_people many you_are, go_up in/into/on forest, and cut_off to_you spatia in/into/on earth/land Perizzite and Raphaim: because narrow it_is to_you possession mountain Ephraim.)

SOTN SIL Open Translator’s Notes:

Section 16:1–17:18 The clans of Ephraim and Manasseh received their land

This section describes the boundaries of the land given to Ephraim and to Manasseh, and the towns within each of their lands.

17:15a

Joshua answered them,

Then Joshua said to them,
Joshua answered,

Joshua answered them: Here are some other ways to translate this part of the verse:

Then Joshua said to them

Joshua answered

17:15b

“If you have so many people that the hill country of Ephraim is too small for you, go to the forest

“If you have so many people, go up into the forests.
“You have many people, so go up into the wooded country.

If you have so many people that the hill country of Ephraim is too small for you, go to the forest: Here are some other ways to translate this part of the verse:

If you^(plur) have so many people, go up into the forest

You have many people, so go up into the wooded country

that the hill country of Ephraim is too small for you: Here are some other ways to translate this part of the verse:

because you think that the hill country of Ephraim is not wide enough for you

because the mountain country of Ephraim is too small for all of you to live in

17:15c

and clear for yourself an area in the land of the Perizzites and the Rephaim.”

Clear land for yourselves there, in the country of the Periz people and the Repha people. The mountain country of Ephraim is too small for you to live in.”
Cut down the trees to make room where the Periz and the Repha peoples live, because you think the hill country of Ephraim is not big enough for you.”

and clear for yourself an area in the land of the Perizzites and the Rephaim: The Hebrew that the BSB translates as clear refers specifically to the act of cutting down trees and removing shrubs in a forest to create a place to live.

the Perizzites: The term Perizzites refers to the Periz people. The Periz people had lived in the land of Canaan for a long time. The Perizzites were mentioned in Joshua 3:10 and 12:8. It is recommended that you translate the name of these people in the same way here.

the Rephaim: The term Rephaim refers to the Repha people. The Repha people had lived in the land of Canaan for a long time. The Rephaim were mentioned in Joshua 12:4 and 13:12. It is recommended that you translate the name of these people in the same way here.

Here are some other ways to translate this part of the verse:

and clear land for yourselves there, in the country of the Periz people and the Repha people

Cut down the trees to make room for yourselves where the Periz people and the Repha people live

General Comment on verse 17:15

In some languages it may be more natural to reorder the parts of this verse. For example:

^15aJoshua answered them, ^15b-c“Go up to the forests, take the land that belongs to the Periz people and the Repha people, and make a place to live there ^15bif you have so many people that the mountain country of Ephraim is not wide enough for you.

UTN uW Translation Notes:

Note 1 topic: figures-of-speech / personification

אַתָּה֙ עֲלֵ֣ה לְ⁠ךָ֣ & וּ⁠בֵרֵאתָ֤ לְ⁠ךָ֙ & לְ⁠ךָ֖

(Some words not found in UHB: and=he/it_said to,them Yəhōshūˊa/(Joshua) if people great//chief/captain you(ms) leaf_of to/for=yourself(m) to,the,forest and,you_will_cut_[it]_down to/for=yourself(m) there in=land of,the_Perizzite[s] and,the,Rephaites that/for/because/then/when narrow to/for=yourself(m) hill_country_of Efrayim )

Joshua is speaking to the tribes of Joseph as if they were a single person who could receive commands. If it would be helpful in your language, you could state the meaning plainly using plural pronouns. Alternate translation: [all of you are … go up for yourselves … and you shall clear for yourselves … to all of you]

Note 2 topic: figures-of-speech / ellipsis

וּ⁠בֵרֵאתָ֤

and,you_will_cut_[it]_down

The author is leaving out some of the words that in many languages a sentence would need in order to be complete. You can supply these words from the context if that would be clearer in your language. Alternate translation: [and you shall clear the land]

Note 3 topic: figures-of-speech / genericnoun

הַ⁠פְּרִזִּ֖י

The author is not referring to a specific Perizzite. He means the Perizzite people group in general. It may be more natural in your language to express this meaning by using a plural form. Alternate translation: [the Perizzites]

Note 4 topic: figures-of-speech / idiom

אָ֥ץ לְ⁠ךָ֖

narrow to/for=yourself(m)

Joshua is using a common expression to mean there is not enough space. If it would be helpful in your language, you could state the meaning plainly. Alternate translation: [is not big enough for you]

BMM BibleMapper.com Maps:

Tribal Allotments of the Promised Land

After the Israelites had conquered portions of the Promised Land and Joshua had grown old, the Lord directed him to divide the rest of the land among the tribes of Israel as their inheritance (Joshua 13-20). The eastern tribes had already been allotted their land under Moses’ leadership (Numbers 32), but they continued to help the other tribes drive out the Canaanites from land west of the Jordan River. The Lord also instructed the Israelites to designate several cities of refuge, where someone could flee for protection from an avenger if they accidentally killed someone (Numbers 35; Joshua 20).

Poster Map of the Tribe of Manasseh (West) and Its Surroundings, circa 1200 B.C.

Though Manasseh’s descendants formed only half the tribe of Joseph (the other half being Ephraim) and its population was surpassed by Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, and Asher (Numbers 26) at the time of their entry in Canaan, Manasseh occupied one of the largest allotments among the tribes of Israel, rivaling even the royal tribe of Judah. Half of Manasseh’s allotted territory was located technically outside the Promised Land of Canaan in the region commonly referred to as the Transjordan (“across the Jordan”), which was seized from King Og as the Israelites approached Canaan from the southeast and prepared to enter the land (Numbers 32:33; Deuteronomy 3:13; Joshua 13; see “Israel Defeats Og and Sihon” map). The other half of its territory (often referred to as West Manasseh) lay in the central region of the Promised Land, and the tribe of Manasseh, sometimes referred to by the name of Machir, Manasseh’s son, was involved in several key events in the early life of Israel. They participated in the victory of Deborah and Barak over Sisera (Judges 5:14; see “Deborah and Barak Defeat Sisera” map) as well as the victory of Gideon (who was from Manasseh) over the Midianites (Judges 7:23; see “Gideon Defeats the Midianites” map). After Gideon died, his son Abimelech briefly made himself king over Shechem and also attacked the town of Thebez in the territory of Manasseh (Judges 9). Manassites were among those who joined David before the battle at Mount Gilboa and also among those who came to make him king at Hebron (1 Chronicles 12; see “The Battle at Mount Gilboa” map and “David and Ish-bosheth” map). Many Manassites were also among those who humbled themselves and accepted Hezekiah’s invitation to attend the Passover in Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 30:11).

West Manasseh’s boundaries eventually stretched from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, and that is how they are drawn on virtually all maps of the tribe’s territory. But this author is convinced that a careful reading of Joshua 16-17 (particularly Joshua 17:7-12) indicates that, technically speaking, Manasseh’s initial allotment included only the western portion of their full allotment, that is, the land to the west of Tappuah, Shechem, and En-gannim and to the south of Asher (see “Poster Map of the Tribe of Zebulun and Its Surroundings circa 1200 B.C.” map and its discussion regarding southern Asher), as shown on this map (see also 1 Kings 4:10). But the tribe of Joseph (that is, Manasseh and Ephraim) complained to Joshua that their allotted territory in Canaan was not large enough for their growing populations (Joshua 17:14-18). So Joshua responded: “If you are a numerous people, go up to the forest, and clear ground there for yourselves in the land of the Perizzites and the Rephaim” (Joshua 17:15). Then it appears that the tribe of Joseph complained further that even this additional hill country would not be enough, yet they were not confident that they could take land from the Canaanites in the Jezreel Valley (Joshua 17:16). But Joshua assured them, “Since you are so large and strong, you will be given more than one portion. The forests of the hill country will be yours as well. Clear as much of the land as you wish, and take possession of its farthest corners. And you will drive out the Canaanites from the valleys, too, even though they are strong and have iron chariots” (Joshua 17:17-18, NLT). This additional allotment–the forested hill country of the Perizzites and the Rephaim–was likely the mountainous region just north of Shechem and the surrounding towns of Tirzah, Thebez, and Bezek. This is supported by Jacob’s comment in Genesis 34:30 that Simeon and Levi had made him “odious to the inhabitants of the land, the Canaanites and the Perizzites” when they slaughtered the men of Shechem for assaulting their sister. Judges 1:4-5 also references a battle fought against the Canaanites and the Perizzites at Bezek. Prior to the Israelites’ entry into Canaan, Perizzites apparently lived in the hill country near Bethel and Ai as well (Genesis 13:7). The Rephaim, while predominantly associated with the lands across the Jordan River (Genesis 14:5; Deuteronomy 2:11-20; 3:11-13), apparently also lived in Canaan, because the Israelites wiped out many Anakim, who were descendants of the Rephaim, as they were conquering Judah (Deuteronomy 2:11; Joshua 11:21-22; 14:12-15). It should also be noted that Ephraim was included in this promise of an additional lot as well (Joshua 17:17), and the stories of Gideon and Jephthah indicate that by their time Ephraim, not Manasseh, was progressively gaining control over the lower Jordan Valley as far north as Zaphon (Judges 7:23-24; 12:1). Manasseh also began to occupy territory belonging to the surrounding Israelite tribes, including the towns and surrounding villages of Beth-shan, Ibleam, Dor, Endor, Taanach, and Megiddo, though they never fully drove out the Canaanites living there (Joshua 17:11-12; Judges 1:27-28; 1 Chronicles 7:29). As a result, the territory occupied by Manasseh and Ephraim by the completion of the book of Joshua and Judges is notably larger than the land originally allotted to them.

Joshua also records that Manasseh’s tribal allotment was further divided among ten clans of Manasseh, including the families of the daughters of Zelophehad (Joshua 17:1-6). During the Israelites’ wandering in the wilderness, Moses granted Zelophehad’s daughters, whose father had no sons, the right to inherit land, though this was not the normal practice in Israel (Numbers 27). The discovery of the Samaria Ostraca in the palace of Ahab in 1910 has enabled scholars to deduce the likely area in which several of these clans settled within Manasseh’s territory, including Noah, Shemida, Abiezer, Asriel, Shechem, Helek, Hoglah, and Tirzah. This author also suspects that the location of the clan of Mahlah may be preserved in the name of the ruins at Khirbat al Milkh (identified as Abel-meholah on this map) and the nearby stream of Wadi el Maleh. Likewise, this author also suspects the location of the clan of Milcah may be preserved in name of the ruins at Khirbat Malihim and the nearby spring of `Ein el Ma`lqa.