PROV 27:22 Parallel Verse View

Note: This view shows ‘verses’ which are not natural language units and hence sometimes only part of a sentence will be visible—click on any Bible version abbreviation down the left-hand side to see the verse in more of its context. Normally the OET discourages the reading of individual ‘verses’, but this view is only designed as a tool for doing comparisons of different translations—the older translations are further down the page (so you can read up from the bottom to trace the English translation history). The OET segments on this page are still very early looks into the unfinished texts of the Open English Translation of the Bible—please double-check these texts in advance before using in public.

Text critical issues=minor/spelling Clarity of original=clear Importance to us=normal (All still tentative.)

Key: khaki:verbs, red:negative.
Note: Automatic aligning of the OET-RV to the LV is done by some temporary software, hence the OET-RV alignments are incomplete (and may occasionally be wrong).

BrLXX Ἐὰν μαστιγοῖς ἄφρονα ἐν μέσῳ συνεδρίου ἀτιμάζων, οὐ μὴ περιέλῃς τὴν ἀφροσύνην αὐτοῦ.
(Ean mastigois afrona en mesōi sunedriou atimazōn, ou maʸ perielaʸs taʸn afrosunaʸn autou. )

BrTr Though thou scourge a fool, disgracing him in the midst of the council, thou wilt still in no wise remove his folly from him.

ULT Even if you pound a fool in a mortar with a pestle in the midst of ground grains,
⇔ his folly will not turn away from on him.

UST If you were to crush a fool the way that you would crush grain into powder,
⇔ you would still not be able to find any part of him that is not foolish.

OEB No OEB PROV book available

WEBBE Though you grind a fool in a mortar with a pestle along with grain,
⇔ yet his foolishness will not be removed from him.

WMBB (Same as above)

NET If you should pound the fool in the mortar
⇔ among the grain with the pestle,
⇔ his foolishness would not depart from him.

LSV If you beat the foolish in a mortar,
Among washed things—with a pestle,
His folly does not turn aside from off him.

FBV Even if you ground stupid people in a mortar, crushing them like grain with the pestle, you can't get rid of stupidity from them.

T4T ⇔ Even if you beat/crush a fool severely like [MET] you pulverize grain with a pestle,
⇔ you probably will not be able to cause him to stop ◄being foolish/doing foolish things►.

LEB • If you crush a fool in the mortar with the pestle along with[fn] the crushed grain, it will not drive folly from upon him.

27:? Or “in the midst of”

BBE Even if a foolish man is crushed with a hammer in a vessel among crushed grain, still his foolish ways will not go from him.

Moff Crush a fool with a pestle in the mortar,
⇔ but you will never crush the folly out of him.
¶ 

JPS Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar with a pestle among groats, yet will not his foolishness depart from him.

ASV Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar with a pestle along with bruised grain,
⇔ Yet will not his foolishness depart from him.

DRA Though thou shouldst bray a fool in the mortar, as when a pestle striketh upon sodden barley, his folly would not be taken from him.

YLT If thou dost beat the foolish in a mortar, Among washed things — with a pestle, His folly turneth not aside from off him.

Drby If thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his folly depart from him.

RV Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar with a pestle among bruised corn, yet will not his foolishness depart from him.
(Though thou/you shouldest/should bray a fool in a mortar with a pestle among bruised corn, yet will not his foolishness depart from him. )

SLT If thou shalt pound the foolish in a mortar in the midst of the grain with a pestle, thou shalt not remove from him his folly.

Wbstr Though thou shouldst bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet his foolishness will not depart from him.

KJB-1769 Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him.
(Though thou/you shouldest/should bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him. )

KJB-1611 Though thou shouldest bray a foole in a morter among wheate with a pestell, yet will not his foolishnesse depart from him.
(Though thou/you shouldest/should bray a fool in a morter among wheat with a pestell, yet will not his foolishness depart from him.)

Bshps Though thou shouldest bray a foole with a pestel in a morter like furmentie corne: yet wyll not his foolishnes go from hym.
(Though thou/you shouldest/should bray a fool with a pestel in a morter like furmentie corn: yet will not his foolishness go from him.)

Gnva Though thou shouldest bray a foole in a morter among wheate brayed with a pestell, yet will not his foolishnes depart from him.
(Though thou/you shouldest/should bray a fool in a morter among wheat brayed with a pestell, yet will not his foolishness depart from him. )

Cvdl Though thou shuldest bray a foole wt a pestell in a morter like otemeell, yet wil not his foolishnesse go from him.
(Though thou/you shouldest/should bray a fool with a pestell in a morter like otemeell, yet will not his foolishness go from him.)

Wycl Thouy thou beetist a fool in a morter, as with a pestel smytynge aboue dried barli; his foli schal not be don awei fro him.
(Though thou/you beetist a fool in a mortar, as with a pestel smyting above dried barley; his folly shall not be done away from him.)

Luth Wenn du den Narren im Mörser zerstießest mit dem Stämpfel wie Grütze, so ließe doch seine Narrheit nicht von ihm.
(When you(sg) the fool(n) in_the Mörser zerstießest with to_him Stämpfel as/like Grütze, so let though/but his folly not from him.)

ClVg Si contuderis stultum in pila quasi ptisanas feriente desuper pilo, non auferetur ab eo stultitia ejus.]
(When/But_if contuderis stupidity in/into/on pila as_if ptisanas feriente from_above pilo, not/no will_be_taken_away away by_him foolishness his.] )

SOTN SIL Open Translator’s Notes:

Section 25:1–29:27: This is Hezekiah’s collection of Solomon’s proverbs

This section is the second collection of Solomon’s proverbs. These proverbs were organized and copied by men who served King Hezekiah. Most scholars divide this section into two groups. These groups differ in several ways.

The first group (chapters 25–27) has many more comparisons and admonitions. In Hebrew, most of these comparisons are metaphors in which one or more illustrations precede the topic. Some English versions change the order so that the topic precedes the illustration(s). You should follow the order that expresses the meaning naturally and effectively in your language.

In the first group, many proverbs are one verse long. As with the individual proverbs in the main collection of Solomon’s proverbs (Section 10:1–22:16), they are not related to the proverbs around them. Other proverbs in this group are two or more verses long. Still others are one-verse proverbs that are closely related in theme. Proverbs in all three categories will be marked as separate paragraphs.

The second group (chapters 28–29) has more contrastive proverbs. The proverbs in this group are each one verse long. They will not be marked as separate paragraphs.

Some other headings for this section are:

More Proverbs of Solomon (NIV)

Proverbs of Solomon Collected by Hezekiah (NET)

These are also wise things that Solomon said

27:22

This proverb teaches that even if you punish a fool severely, you will not remove his foolishness.

^22aThough you grind a fool like grain with mortar and a pestle,

^22byet his folly will not depart from him.

The first line describes the process of pounding grain in a mortar with a pestle. The second line (27:22b) gives the result of figuratively pounding or “grinding” the fool in 27:22a.

In Hebrew, this proverb is a metaphor. The implied topic is the punishment of a fool. The illustration is the process of pounding grain in a mortar. The implied result of pounding grain is to remove the useless husks. By contrast, even severe physical punishment will not remove the foolish conduct of a stubborn fool.McKane and Waltke both say that the metaphor of pounding/grinding a fool in a mortar refers to severe punishment. Ross, Longman, and Murphy specify physical punishment.

See fool 1 and folly in the Glossary.

27:22a

Though you grind a fool like grain with mortar and a pestle,

¶ You^(sing) may pound/grind a stubborn fool like grain in a mortar,
¶ Even though people beat/punish a fool severely,

Though you grind a fool like grain with mortar and a pestle: In Hebrew, this verse part is literally “If/Though you pound/grind a fool in the mortar among the grains with the pestle.” This clause figuratively describes a fool as one of many grains of barley in a mortar.Fox (p. 814) describes the fool as one grain among many grains of barley in a mortar. Waltke (p. 371) also identifies the grain as barley. A person pounds the grain with a pestle to grind or crush the grain and remove the inedible husks. But contrary to what he expects, even severe pounding will not remove the fool’s “husk.”

mortar…pestle: A mortar was a deep bowl or a hollowed stone or log. A pestle was a sturdy wooden or stone pole.Kidner (p. 168) describes a mortar as “a pounding-bowl.” According to Hubbard (p. 438), both mortar and pestle were made from stone. According to the IVP New Bible Dictionary, the mortar was made from either wood or stone, and the pestle was made from wood.

In some languages, it may be clearer or more natural to leave some parts of this metaphor implied and/or to make other parts explicit. Some ways to translate this verse part are:

Keep the illustration of a mortar and pestle. In some languages, it may not be necessary to make “grain” explicit. For example:
You may pound a fool in a mortar with a pestle (REB)
Keep the figurative idea of “grinding” a fool “like grain.” For example:
Even if you ground up a foolish person like grain in a bowl (NCV)
Use a different method of grinding or a specific kind of grain. For example:
Even if you punish a fool as thoroughly as people grind rice in a mill
Translate the meaning without using a metaphor or simile. For example:
Even if you beat fools half to death (GNT)

27:22a–b

(combined/reordered)

¶ People pound rice/barley to remove the husks, but if they beat a stubborn fool, they will not be able to remove his foolishness.
¶ When you^(sing) use a pestle to pound grain in a mortar, you will separate the husks from the grain. But even if you punish a fool severely/thoroughly, you will not cause his foolishness to leave.
If a person is a stubborn fool, even if you punish him for his foolishness, he will still be a fool.

27:22b

yet his folly will not depart from him.

but his foolishness will not be removed.
he will still have a foolish character.

yet his folly will not depart from him: This line means that his foolishness will continue to be a part of his character. He will not stop doing things that are foolish. Some other ways to translate this line are:

you will not remove his folly from him (NIV)

still his foolishness will not be separated from him (VOICE)

but his folly will never be knocked out of him (REB)

you will never stop him from acting foolishly

General Comment on 27:22a–b

In some languages, it may be more natural to combine and/or reorder some of the parts of this verse. For example:

You cannot separate fools from their foolishness, even though you grind them like grain with mortar and pestle. (NLT)

If you grind wheat in a mill, the husks will be gone. If you punish a fool, his foolishness will remain.

UTN uW Translation Notes:

Note 1 topic: figures-of-speech / hypo

אִ֥ם תִּכְתּֽוֹשׁ־אֶת־הָ⁠אֱוִ֨יל ׀ בַּֽ⁠מַּכְתֵּ֡שׁ בְּ⁠ת֣וֹךְ הָ֭⁠רִיפוֹת בַּֽ⁠עֱלִ֑י

if crush DOM the,fool in,mortar in_the=middle the,grain(s) with,pestle

Solomon introduces an imaginary situation to help explain how futile it is to try to stop a fool from being foolish. Use a natural method in your language for introducing an imaginary situation. Alternate translation: “Suppose you were to pound a fool in a mortar with a pestle in the midst of ground grains”

Note 2 topic: translate-unknown

תִּכְתּֽוֹשׁ־אֶת־הָ⁠אֱוִ֨יל ׀ בַּֽ⁠מַּכְתֵּ֡שׁ בְּ⁠ת֣וֹךְ הָ֭⁠רִיפוֹת בַּֽ⁠עֱלִ֑י

crush DOM the,fool in,mortar in_the=middle the,grain(s) with,pestle

The terms mortar and pestle refer to hard tools that are smashed together to crush grains. If your readers would not be familiar with this type of tool, you could use the name of something similar in your area, or you could use a more general term. Alternate translation: “you pound a fool with tools used for crushing grain”

Note 3 topic: figures-of-speech / genericnoun

אֶת־הָ⁠אֱוִ֨יל & מֵ֝⁠עָלָ֗י⁠ו אִוַּלְתּֽ⁠וֹ

DOM the,fool & from,with,him foolishness_of,his

Here, a fool, his, and him refer to fools in general, not one particular fool. If it would be helpful in your language, you could use more natural expressions. Alternate translation: “any fool … that fool’s folly … from on that fool”

Note 4 topic: figures-of-speech / personification

לֹא־תָס֥וּר מֵ֝⁠עָלָ֗י⁠ו אִוַּלְתּֽ⁠וֹ

not depart from,with,him foolishness_of,his

Here Solomon speaks of a person being unable to stop behaving foolishly as if his folly were a person who will not turn away from on him. If it would be helpful in your language, you could express the meaning plainly. Alternate translation: “he will not stop his folly”

Note 5 topic: figures-of-speech / abstractnouns

אִוַּלְתּֽ⁠וֹ

foolishness_of,his